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What can everyone else learn from designers and design engineers? As it turns out, there’s plenty, as I discovered when one of the best design engineers in the industry, Maggie Appleton, came onto the Pragmatic Engineer Podcast. She’s a staff research engineer at GitHub Next, where she builds prototypes to explore how software engineers might collaborate with AI in new ways. Maggie is at the intersection of design, anthropology, and web development, and was the first designer hired by AI startup Elicit, and Lead Design engineer at AI startup, Normally.
Today’s episode is more visual than usual because Maggie brought her notebook along, so there are peeks inside its pages of prototypes and more:
We got into designers’ work and how their design processes are adapting to and changing with AI. We explore why Maggie starts projects with pens and notebooks, what distinguishes design engineers from other designers, and why understanding engineering constraints leads to better collaboration with engineers.
We also discuss how Maggie uses jigs to gain more control over AI agents, why human judgment and style still matter when models can generate designs, and how inconsistent AI capabilities can mislead us.
Timestamps
Intro
From anthropology to tech
What does a designer do?
How Maggie works
The case for planning with physical tools
Why Maggie is learning woodworking
Design engineers and engineering constraints
How Maggie uses Figma
Design at GitHub Next
How has AI changed design
When models design and why humans are still needed
UX and UI
Capability gaslighting
One Developer, Two Dozen Agents, Zero Alignment
Craft and AI tells
Visual gardens, home-cooked software, and barefoot developers
Advice for engineers and lessons from anthropology
Book recommendation
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The Pragmatic Engineer deepdives relevant for this episode:
• Design-first software engineering: Craft, with Balint Orosz
• Are AI agents actually slowing us down?
• Vibe Coding as a software engineer
• From Chrome DevTools to AI Engineering, with Addy Osmani
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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@pragmaticengineer.com.
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